Does it matter if you’re black or white?
I don’t want to offend anyone with today’s blog, so just know that ahead of time. This is about interracial dating. Ultimately I don’t care what YOU do. I love Love and if you’re deep in it then I am happy as a pickle for you. I’ve actually dated a white guy once so for me personally, I can knock it since I’ve tried it. First let me start with what has prompted this subject that I’ve tried to avoid for the longest. A friend of mine posted this on Facebook and the only reason I looked was because they introduced it by asking “Are black women driving black men away? Or is there a deeper problem?” Also the article excerpt pointed to there being friction between the two groups. Now the gentleman that posted this article is someone I respect and so I wasn’t immediately offended by his introduction, but that question in itself answers the next one. “Is there a deeper problem?” Well clearly there is. Go head, take a look, I’ll wait.
Okay, I’ll start with my personal views that way you can see that I am in fact biased and stand on a certain side of the fence. Like I said, I don’t care who YOU date, unless you are in my close circle of friends, and in that case I only care that you aren’t in an abusive situation. For me personally, I prefer to date within my “race” to the greatest extent that I can. My family comes from different cultures so you can run into several different branches of my family tree, and there are many others out there that can do the same. I just prefer to date someone that self-identifies as Black and has the more obvious credentials along with that. (LOL That’s for you folks out there that claim to be black because you greet people by saying “What it do?”) It so hard to raise a family these days as it is, I would not want to feel like I couldn’t be completely open with my children in the lessons I teach them. While I’m not looking to raise little militant baby Panthers (#lies), I will not hold back on certain truths, and I will not allow them to grow up ignorant as I had. I believe this will be easiest for ME if I found a Black man that held those same beliefs. (I have, because it’s not as hard to find as the above article paints it to be.) Plus, I LOVE black men and I think they are beautiful in all of their variety and deserving of beautiful black queens.
On to my first issue. There has been a strain on the black family structure since we got to this country. Our families were BRED and then separated to fulfill the needs of an industry we were forced into. This sowed the seeds of fear and independence into the Black Matriarch. A black mother saw her husband and father of her children ripped away from her and she HAD to step up and be the provider and nurturer for her family. After slavery when the black family was on an incline, drugs and disproportionate incarceration of our men led to another disruption to our family structure and once again the black woman had to pick up the pieces. This led to bitter resentment and it began a horrid cycle with no clear beginning and no clear way to break it. Our men were not there, our women became angry. Our women raised children that they taught to resent men because of the ills of their fathers or their sons became lost in the struggle due to their father’s absence. Then it would repeat. The son grows up not knowing how to treat a woman, the daughter grows up not knowing how to be a woman or how to interact with a man. To ask “are black women driving black men away” is frustrating. It places the blame on women solely and I truly feel we all share equal parts of the blame if we feel it necessary to point the finger. I could easily come back and say, “no we aren’t driving you away, you could never be there, and would rather choose to take the easy way out” but I won’t because I don’t believe that’s the smart way to go nor is it simply the truth.
I looked through those pictures and while I believe it was a bit dramatic, incorrect to some degree, and over-reaching I couldn’t deny that it’s a big deal. I don’t believe Ann Coulter is dating a black man named J.J. (but what do I know?) and while some of those men are dating non-black women, it’s not as if they’ve never dated a black woman before. It’s 2009 and so everyone feels like ‘we’re all just one big melting pot” and that’s cool if that’s how you get down, but that doesn’t sit so easily with me. We’re a group of people that’s culture was robbed from us, and I feel like since de-segregation became an ideal goal for us, we became more and more willing to drop any culture we had or were re-creating. I don’t like the idea that to be “great” we can assimilate into one giant multi-cultural pot. You cannot deny that decades ago dating a white woman was seen as a status symbol. You’ve arrived. Sure that may still play a role today, but I’m not sure how much, and I’m not sure how consciously. Today some people say “they are just easier to deal with” and I don’t know what that means. If that’s true then that says A) You’re lazy because you don’t want to WORK for it, and B) You know nothing about me. Of course most people say that it has nothing to do with actually SEEING color, but they just love what they love, and I don’t fully believe that but to each his own.
In an effort to wrap this up, the biggest thing that bothered me about the pictures is that it paints this picture that black women are just not desirable. At the end the author points out that black women are no longer the finest thing’s out there… I mean… “look at the backsides on those Panamanian chicks!?” Black women have been hyper-sexualized since we got here. We became the Jezebel with the big hips, thin waist, round butts, full lips, and bouncing breasts. We were playthings. So now that other women are drinking what’s in our water they match up to us? That’s what that author basically said and I wonder how many men think that? I hear guys say “white girls have booty now too” as if to say that’s all they were waiting for to leave us behind. That’s a shame. Our men have been reduced to the size of their Penis, but we still see him as more than that.
I want to save “black love”. I know many people don’t believe that it exists or care about it, or think it’s necessary, but I do. Our President is bi-racial, and that’s great! But he identifies as black and has a black family. I see that as black love, and I love it. Having dated outside of my race, I can say that there was just a different feeling. A lack of a deeper understanding. I need that. Is there a friction? Yes. I don’t believe it’s fully our faults. We’ve been conditioned to redefine our standards of beauty. So much so that when non-black women have traits more commonly associated with black women it is seen as “better”. De-conditioning our minds would be a daunting task, and would require willingness and self-awareness. Most people don’t even care anymore and that’s fine. Just stop taking away my beauty to make you feel better about your decision to date a woman that looks nothing like your mother. If you want to date interracially, I support you and your happiness, but make it about you and no one else. The cycle should stop however, black women, stop putting down our men. It’s a struggle out there, lift him up and support him. Raise our sons and daughters to adore him. Take the chip off the shoulder. Black men, you are NOT weak. Stop acting like you can’t handle a woman that was made FOR you. If you handled her enough in the bedroom, handle what comes after that. Be there for the children that you had a hand in creating and show them how awesome you are and always respect their mother. There is bitterness there, not without a reason, but we all have to grow up, deal with it, and move on.
I think tomorrow I’ll talk more about black women and dating interracially. Hmmmm. In the meantime, look at this lovely display of love.
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One thing I adore about you, JG, is that you have a deep-seeded need to improve the world around you. And I think that’s awesome.
I read this, though, as a person who cares about the world and black folks in a more general way. and I think you’re right. Most of us are apathetic to the cause of saving black love. Most people just want to meet someone that they can love and build a life with. And maybe we should all be thinking more about the social conditioning behind our attractions, but for the most part, we want to happy. And yes, work goes into any successful relationship, but we don’t want the work to be THAT hard. And so I read this and think, “Damn. That’s a lot of work.”
I do agree that the decision to date outside of one’s race shouldn’t be an attack on black women. I’d be much more comfortable with men saying “I like what I like” than “All black women are [insert negative stereotype here],” and the same with women. We all have the right to just BE, but not at the expense of others’ self-esteem.
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Reecie Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
@Robin Monique, “Most of us are apathetic to the cause of saving black love.” YES! and its so bothersome to me. I’m soooo passionate about it. It could be that my parents never married, and because I’ve seen the downfall of so many families and homes but its something I strive for. I don’t know how to further articulate my thoughts without sounding extremely militant, but I know what’s right for me. I wish more black people made a conscious and definitive effort to improve our relationships with each other, and not make excuses for dating outside of their race as “black women being difficult” or “I see no color” as you’ve outlined here. I’m not really buying the latter either, JG.
[Reply]
Sincero14 Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
@Reecie, Several people I know that “don’t see color” take on the characteristics that are commonly associated with one race vs another. That alone tells me that they see SOMETHING.. and for whatever reason it has led to the attraction.
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I agree with you. I feel that if a person decides to date interracially it should be a personal reason not one that blankets an entire group of people. I.e. Black women are x, y and z.
My only question is… Is “Black Love” necessary? I really don’t know the answer to this, so I wanted to ask you JG and your readers.
I feel like nowadays with the world expanding and folks of all colors living in different places, what may be more important in creating a foundation may be religion or even culture and not so much in race.
A Black man may be able to identify more with a fellow city kid who’s a White woman than a Black girl who was raised in a suburban home in upstate NY. With a widening POV, are we holding onto something else that’s frivolous in the long run and not focusing on what’s really important? Or should we do like other races and hold tight to date and marry other folks that look like us?
::Kanye shrug::
[Reply]
Sincero14 Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
@Seattle Washington, Well… to me it is. LOL As someone who grew up the Token Negro without any black friends, I have found “Black Love” to be something I HAVE to have. Like I mentioned, I have dated a white person before and it was just different. You could say that he and I had a more similar background than the person I’m dating now, but for the first time I feel extremely secure. It could also have a lot to do with where I was raised. North Florida which is a lot like Lower Alabama. Race is not a quiet topic down there. I have a white friend that I just hang out with but still feel extremely uncomfortable when I see people looking at us. Those are all important factors in my dating relationships.
Like you pointed out, other races unashamedly wish to maintain their culture amongst themselves. We act like we’re afraid to.
[Reply]
Streetz: Mr Write Now Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
@Sincero14, I think that you hit the nail on the head with most of this post. My thing is, I believe Black Love is a beautiful thing, but it shouldn’t be FORCED upon blacks just because of their race. You mention Barack becase he identifies as black but he acknowledges his white side too, so is his “love” with michelle truly “black love” or is it just “love”?
I think anyone who dissassociates with dating their race has deeper issues, but if its a matter of preference or just that you happent o love someone outside your race, I dont think you should be chastized for it. You mention Latinos slightly in your post. There are Black latinos too, who’s ancestry derives from Africa just like ours. Hell, the indigenous people of Hispanola (Haiti and DR) are the same people! Colonialism separated the two!
i just think we should be careful when we label black love and who we choose to say isn’t “keepin it real” with that love. I’ve seen black love though and it is THAT beautiful! I won’t miss other opportunities at the same time by seeking black love when another love could be in my face, feel me?
[Reply]
I feel like it all comes down to personal preference. My opinion has personally always been that a woman who wanted to date a white man was never my woman to begin with. People like who they like and love who they love and it’s a personal decision that I feel like we have little business delving into. The fact of the matter is that while it is aesthetically pleasing for people to date within their race sometimes you can’t pick a more superficial characteristic.
As a black man who has dated most flavors of women I can tell you that excuses are just nonsense, women are who they want to be. I’ve date black woman who were easier to deal with than white woman and asian women who wouldn’t do a thing for you (even though they’re supposed to be so subservient). The fact of the matter is that who people chose to date is not our business nor is it for us to judge. Date who makes you happy and forget what everyone else thinks.
I have settled down with a beautiful black woman but I am not ashamed to say the first woman I ever loved was a white woman and she will always have a special place in my heart because we understood each other on a level that few people have ever gotten me on.
It’s no one’s fault and the men making excuses about why they date who, shouldn’t be the men you’re disappointed in not having available because if he’s not man enough to stand up for who he wants to date he probably isn’t man enough to stand up to future responsibilities.
I’ll end this with 2 things:
1) I always tell my little brother: Date for substance, not looks.
2) If a white person wrote a column saying that white people should stick to dating white people how would you feel (racism is racism and it’s never good, ***NO ACCUSATIONS HERE***)
[Reply]
Sincero14 Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
@Richmond VA, Thank you for sharing and sending blessings your way on your relationship!
To your second point. As someone who does not desire to date a white person, I would totally not care. LOL And I never said to just stick to your own, I simply stated how I feel and how I act. And I never said that other races were one thing or another. So if a Jewish person, a Vietnamese person, or whomever wrote a blog about why they love their own race and choose to date solely within that context, why would I be mad? If they didn’t write an expose on staying away from those N***a coons, then what’s the problem? Maybe that’s my next blog.
[Reply]
SydneyX Reply:
December 30th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
@Richmond VA, in the end, you chose well. :smiles: @Sincero14, I wholly agreed with your article/ responses. I grow 100% tired of hearin Black men say it’s about us AND that “it’s not about skin color.” Emmett Till whistled because she was white, and 50+ years later, Black men still do it for the thrill and the taboo, without serious repercussions. Forbidden fruit makes even the most delicious apple look rotten. They know what they’re doing to us, and they simply don’t care.
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I appreciate this examination of it. I have the same sentiment as you, I prefer to date within my race but I don’t care who anyone else dates. If you’re happy, so am I. My first cousin has a girlfriend who happens to be white and brought her to Thanksgiving dinner with the family. Of course there were some of the “you know what I’m thinkin’, right?” looks amongst some family members but she mostly fit in because she wasnt afraid to be herself.
On Black love…
As a man going on 6 years of marriage to a lovely black woman, I have to say that in the thick of things, there is something very comforting and endearing about having someone who feels you. While I love my Black women, I don’t know that love needs that shade. I think the beauty of love is that it can be found in anyone, anywhere. Now don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think it’s driving anyone away. I think as our society trends more global, so does the scope of men and women a Black man or woman is willing to date.
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I’m glad you blogged about this. I recently was approached by a white guy, and after a few conversations, he asked me out on a date. Now, I know this doesn’t necessarily mean “relationship,” but dates do typically lead to more serious interactions. I’m not opposed to interracial dating. I have talked to guys outside of my race before. But I love black men. My daddy is a black man, and I want to marry one and have little brown babies. My parents never had issues with me dating/talking to white guys. They always said, “As long as he treats you well, then we’re ok with it.” I think I have a bigger issue with it, because I too am passionate about black love. I’ve watched my parents make it work for over 30 years, and it seems that they love each other a little more everyday. I see our President and First Lady, and they make me so proud. Everytime I see them together, I’m like, “I want THAT!” I’m not giving up on black men.
[Reply]
This was really good JG!
As someone who has dated people both inside and outside my race, I feel like it is SO hard to find someone I am compatible with, I cannot let race even factor in. There are some differences in dating outside my race, but there’s also differences when dating someone from a different geographical or educational background. Contrary to what some people think, race is a formidable barrier in a relationship just like anything else.
At the same time, there is nothing that gets under my skin more than black nen saying “I only date white girls because black girls are too [insert stereotype]. A black man dating a white girl is fine by me, but why insult every black girl to justify his choice? Largely, black women who date outside of the race don’t insult black men to justify their choice. When I had a white bf, people would say “Alissa likes white guys”. That’s ridiculous. I don’t like white guys, black guys, Asian guys, or Hispanic guys, I like whomever I like at the moment without regard to race.I wouldn’t date a man simply because he’s black so why would anyone assume I’m dating a guy just because he’s white??? That’s dumb.
I think every black girl (more than any other gender of any race) feels some obligation to preserve her race by only having full-black kids. I don’t even know where that comes from. But I’m like eff that. Love is love. Everybody can’t be Michelle Obama and if everyone were, there would be no Barack.
Oh and no one should be confused: love comes in any color and dogs come in all breeds. “Crazy” does not discriminate
[Reply]
Sincero14 Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
@Alissa, “I think every black girl (more than any other gender of any race) feels some obligation to preserve her race by only having full-black kids. I don’t even know where that comes from. But I’m like eff that. Love is love. Everybody can’t be Michelle Obama and if everyone were, there would be no Barack.”
This is not a black thing…The idea to preserve ones race or culture is not a concept that only we innately hold on to. We’re probably the only ones that feel crappy for it.
Love is love and I support that. Which is why I support great relationships despite race, upbringing, class, education levels between the two, etc. I just can’t see myself falling in love with a non-black person due to the fact that our everyday interactions would be uncomfortable for me. LOL Of course I can and do have white friends, I was the Token Negro remember, but that’s different, and even then….
[Reply]
Alissa Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
@Sincero14, What do you mean your everyday interactions would be uncomfortable? Do you mean your interactions with him or with other people staring and making comments, etc.
[Reply]
Sincero14 Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
@Alissa, My interactions with him. Yes those outside forces are strong too, but not enough.
I was reading the comments and thought of something else, lol…
I think when people are saying they “don’t see color” they’re not saying that in the literal sense. To say you’re color-blind is both ridiculous and impossible..and rude. I’m black and want to be acknowledged as such. BUT, I think people say they don’t “see color” as a way to say they don’t see color as a reason to date or not to date a person. Idk. I never say that cause that’s dumb, but I like to give people who do the benefit of the doubt. Lol.
[Reply]
Sincero14 Reply:
November 30th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
@Alissa, Oh I don’t believe we meant that literally either. TO say that you “don’t see color” is to say that you don’t see anything different about me or my experiences because I’m black. And personally, if someone said that to me I’d be like “well you should see it then” because to a certain extent I am defined by those experiences.
[Reply]
Everybody can date whoever they want. I love black women. Dating anybody outside your immediate race for any other reason than ‘I like them and they like me’ makes me cringe and I hate to hear that shit.
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